Podcast: Judson Kleinman found success focusing on improving corporate culture for his clients and employees

Judson Kleinman: My first day of work was May 13, 1985, when I started with Cory Foods. It’s stuck in my head.

It was random that I ended up in this business. I knew I wanted to own my own business one day. I knew that. And I knew that the path for many CEOs was through sales. So, I knew that I had to get in sales. As young people often are — think they know everything — I was smart enough to know that I wasn’t that smart, and I needed to learn how to sell.

I was fortunate enough to find Cory Foods. It had a training program based on the Xerox brand — the Xerox training program — which, at the time, was an iconic brand. I went through a training program in Indiana, and that’s how I learned about selling, how to be a professional seller and how to read people.

I got back to New York, and my territory was Queens — which I knew nothing about even though I’m from New York. I started knocking on literally every door. I didn’t...there was no door that was safe from me. A shoemaker, like one guy, one Italian guy working on shoes:

“Hey, do you drink coffee?

“I drink 10 espressos a day.”

I tried to sell coffee to everybody.

And I did well right from the beginning because I’m a people person. I like talking to people — I love people. And I think that’s the crux of what life is all about: meeting people from everywhere. I talk to people anywhere and everywhere.

It was a great experience, and I was there about a year. It was announced that the company was being sold to ARA, [and it] became ARA Cory. My salary at that time, I’m not embarrassed to say, was $12,000. It was not a lot.

My sales manager, Howard Kendler, brought me into his office after he announced that he wasn’t going to stay. I was the youngest guy there, and he said, “You’re going to take my job.” And I went, “What?!” And honestly, I don’t know how he even — he worked with me one time in the field on one call in a year, and I remember the account, it was Swingline Staplers. He says, “You should be the sales manager.”

So, with a little prodding and some other people encouraging me, I became the sales manager, and I probably really wasn’t that good. I didn’t understand how to really lead people. I thought if I told them what to do, then they would do it. And I didn’t explain why I wanted them to do it.

And so, it was a learning experience. Everyone was older than me. I had 12 salespeople reporting to me. I learned so much about people and the kind of leader that I wanted to be.

I eventually became a good sales manager. I think a pretty good leader.

Bob Tullio: Then, you move on to Coffee Service and More. Why did you move? Opportunity? And what did you take from that four-year experience there?

Judson Kleinman: I really wasn’t looking to leave. I had moved through [the] management training program at ARA Cory. I moved to Rhode Island and was running a branch there. I got married in the interim and then when I came back, they made me the branch manager, so things were going well.

I got contacted by this company in New Jersey, and they had gone through some crazy stuff. They didn’t have somebody running the company because the guy that was running it ended up in jail. [And so they asked,] “Hey Judson, you want to run this company?”

For me, it was an exciting opportunity to be the president of a company. I learned again in different stages of my life that, as much as you think you know, when you get there, you might not really know as much as you thought.

I thought the people were great initially, and then I learned that these people did not see business the same way — did not see people the same way. And, as much as I was successful for them, I knew that I didn’t want to stay there. I wanted to start my own. And it was about two years into that that I started really thinking, you know, I’m going to write a business plan. I’m going to get investors —because I didn’t have enough money — and I’m going to go out on my own.

I took my 401k that I had saved, as much as I could with Aramark, and I cashed it all out. I was all in, and I started my own company in 1996 with Ivan Mann, Tim Morgan and the third person who was supposed to come, got an offer to stay with the other company because they were nervous that I was leaving.

Bob Tullio: Probably not the best life choice he made.

Judson Kleinman: No, I don’t think so. No.

Bob Tullio: This was all OCS business prior to that, that you were involved in. Is that correct?

Judson Kleinman: Oh boy. Yeah. You think about the industry back when I was with Cory, the number of SKUs was so limited. The juice bowl, juices — there were no snacks. Nobody, nobody bought snacks. It was cups, it was soup — cup of soup. It was very limited. I don’t want to say simple, but it was basic stuff.

Bob Tullio: Pantry service was graham crackers, maybe microwave popcorn if that was available then.

Judson Kleinman: I don’t even think we sold that, Bob. To be honest, it was very simple. And everything was measured on how many kits of coffee you sold.

Bob Tullio: Oh, how many kits? Yeah, it was all about the kits.

Judson Kleinman: That’s right.

Bob Tulio: So, you decided to do your own thing in ’96. You’ve got partners. And are you just starting at ground zero with no accounts?

Judson Kleinman: That’s it. It was actually the Jewish holidays, and I had to call my mother. I said, “Mom, I’ve got to work today.” And she said, “What?” It was Yom Kippur, which is a very religious holiday, and I said, “I have to go out. We have no business. I’ve got to start getting accounts.”

We went to an A.G. Edwards office. Somehow, we got in to talk to the guy that was in charge. He’s like, “Okay, when could you put a machine in?” And Ivan’s sitting next to me and he’s so excited, he’s talking, talking, talking. I literally kicked him. I kicked him like, “Let’s get out of here before he changes his mind.” And we went back to our office, [and] we got our first account. It was so much fun. Honestly, it’s been such an incredible adventure — been so fun.

I’ve said I didn’t have dreams of being in the coffee refreshment business, although I do have an interesting story.

Growing up, I was a hustler: I didn’t want to ask my parents for money. So, I had my best friend, Paul. We shoveled snow for people when it snowed, and then we were selling ice cream at the beach, to make money and meet girls.

I ended up selling — this is kind of crazy — nuts and candy at a flea market in New York, which was very popular. So, it’s kind of ironic that I ended up in this business somehow. And yet, you know, when I was probably 17, and I had my own little booth. It didn’t work — it was a disaster because I could never sell enough to pay for the booth — but it was a learning experience of how to be an entrepreneur, and how to, you know, market yourself.

Bob Tullio: You had that bug from the beginning, apparently. There’s no doubt about that. When you started Corporate Essentials, is that what you called it from day one — Corporate Essentials?

Judson Kleinman: Yes.

Bob Tullio: What was your vision for the company?

Judson Kleinman: I focused on us being the best. Obviously, I wanted the company to grow, but I didn’t want to focus on being the biggest because I didn’t think that was a worthwhile vision. I just wanted to be the best. And I figured if we were the best, then the rest would happen. And I wanted to create a place that wasn’t where people felt, “I have to go to work.” I wanted them to feel like they were part of something and that they were respected for their opinion and for who they were, regardless of their background — that it was a family.

We all sell coffee. We all sell snacks. Maybe we don’t all sell the same amount of stuff — we sell food here too, we have a catering company. We’re all fighting for the same business, but at the end of the day, I think if you focus on really what we do — the why — it’s to influence and impact the culture. I’m not saying that if you offer the best coffee and food, that you’re going to have the best culture. It’s got to be part of an overall strategy that starts at the top of the company, is lived with all the managers and the people. The culture is so important to us in order for us to be successful. It’s about making, impacting people’s lives in a positive manner.

Bob Tullio: To what extent do you think the whole culture thing extends out to sustainability, the impact you have on the community, the impact that you ultimately have in terms of making your community better?

Judson Kleinman: We all live on this planet. We can’t take anything for granted.

Look at what happened out on the West Coast [during the January 2025 Southern California fires] just recently. I mean, devastating people’s lives. Too many of us, in too little of space, and not taking care of things.

I think it’s all of our responsibility to live consciously of the environment. And I think a lot of us fall really short on that. I mean, a simple thing: turn off the lights when you’re not in the room. If everybody did that, I’ve actually just talked to somebody about this. Why, in big cities, are so many buildings lit up all night, for what reason? Turn the lights off! I can’t imagine how much power would be saved if we did that. Water — all the resources — it should be part of everybody’s focus now. We can’t necessarily push it on people who don’t want to hear it. But it’s certainly become a topic of conversation in almost every sales call: Is this sustainable? How much energy does it use? Do you have products that are recyclable?

And you guys on the West Coast are way ahead of us on the East Coast and have been for years.

Bob Tullio: How about giving back? What do you guys do in terms of giving back to the community? Do you have ongoing projects that relate to that?

Judson Kleinman: We’ve donated, I think, significant amounts of money to different causes, St. Jude, Doctors Without Borders, Wounded Warrior Project. We think that’s important to give back.

During the pandemic, we donated truckloads of product — literally, trailers of product. We’re part of the community. Many of us who work and, you know, we have jobs and we’re fortunate, but there’s many people that there’s food insecurity, and there’s a lot of homelessness. So, we try to, we do a lot. I feel maybe we fall short and should do more, but we do try, and to do our best.

Bob Tullio: That’s good. What was the turning point for your business that took you to the next level? At what point in time did you experience that? I’ll tell you, for me, it was when we finally got the financing we needed to function. Because we were growing like crazy, but choking, you know what I mean?

Judson Kleinman: You know, it’s funny, you set in your mind [a plan]. When I wrote my business plan — and it was a good business plan — I thought, “When we get to this point, we will have money.”

I couldn’t get the banks to loan me money. But then, all of a sudden, like early 2000, I had a random call on the phone, a cold call. “This is so and so from Wells Fargo. Would you like an unsecured loan for $50,000?” I’m like, “What? Nothing? I don’t have no collateral? Nothing? Okay.”

Meanwhile, I was borrowing money and paying 13 [or] 14% interest on equipment. And like you, we were growing — and it was strangling us.

So, then I said, “Wait a minute, I bank at this bank in New Jersey. And I give them all my money, and my payroll goes [through there]… and they haven’t done anything!” I went in and met with the manager. I said, “I’m sorry, I’m confused. This bank called me — doesn’t know anything from me. And, I’ve been banking here now for six or seven years, and you haven’t done anything for me. Why is that?”

And then all of a sudden, I was getting loans for trucks, and I was getting... But it still wasn’t enough. When you’re growing at 30%, you know, the amount of money that you have to invest in inventory and people and trucks — it’s hard.

I think the real turning point — probably Shoffee at the time, which was an online K-cup seller, business to consumer — generated cash for us because people were paying with credit cards faster than we were collecting money. It generated a positive cash flow, so that was good.

And I think the other thing is, we were one of the first companies to get into pantry. It was really by accident.

We sold an account, and they said, “We have these pour containers in here.” And I was like, “What’s a pour container? I never even heard of it. What is it?”

“It’s putting bulk product in these containers,” [the client says]. “We got to do this.”

[And I said], “What do you mean? I can’t do that.”

And he says, “No, we got to do it.”

Okay. So, we flew out to California, and I met with Ken Fey at BlueStar, saw what they were doing. I took what he was doing, and I made it — I think I made it better. And then the pantry thing just started to take off.

Bob Tullio: I went into your facility and saw the pour bin room for your pantry service. You had probably the biggest pour room in terms of pouring out bulk snacks. It was basically your bulk snack room. Never seen anything like it. You were the king of bulk snacks. And I got such a kick out of it. And you know, you really took it and ran with it. You know, and in those days, I think pantry service was impactful for your company too because the margins were pretty decent at the time. It was a little early in the game. It was really appreciated as an amenity.

Judson Kleinman: I don’t want to say we were the pantry experts, but I think we’re pretty good at it. And we learned and we grew through that. And that really, I think, was the impetus for our growth.

When we moved from Fairfield to Parsippany, we moved from 11,000 [or] 12,000 square foot space to a 25,000 square foot space. Double the space, right? I had 28 people. And before I knew it, I had like 70 people. It was just like explosive growth that was obviously exciting as an entrepreneur, a little scary. You’re making financial commitments on what you hope to do, but you just got to keep working hard and being innovative and creative.

I’m never satisfied with where I’m at. I always say perfection is that thing that I’m always reaching for but never going to get there.

You know, we have to constantly challenge ourselves to be better than we were yesterday, be more connected to the customers. At the end of the day, it really is the connection and the relationships with people. We touch people and we can be a light to shine goodness and kindness on anyone we choose to. I’m always that way with my people. I know about their lives. I know people come and ask me for loans. And I’ve been burned a couple of times, but it doesn’t stop me from helping people. And I don’t ask for interest. I’m fortunate and blessed. I can afford to give somebody a few hundred dollars or a thousand dollars and get paid back over time because I care about them. I’m grateful for all the people that have ever worked here, even if they were bad employees, because they were all part of who we are today. What makes us Corporate Essentials, what makes us a great company.

Bob Tullio: Are there any key people in your organization, past or present, that you’d like to acknowledge as being instrumental to your success?

Bob, so many. I have all my managers here. This is actually part of my learning experience. When I started in a little room, and we were all in one room, I had my ear to every conversation that was going on, and I was interjecting my thoughts into their conversation. “What are you doing? What? What?” And I was probably a pain in the ass.

And you get to a point where you’re big enough that you can’t really do that effectively and you shouldn’t be doing that. Number one, you shouldn’t do it and you can’t.

But it’s also if you give somebody the opportunity to be a manager or an employee for that matter, the most important thing is that you trust — you give them the trust. But then you have to really allow them to do their thing, be who they, the best they can be, and encourage them to be the best they can be. And I think I have a knack for encouraging people, maybe pushing a little bit. I do. I do demand a lot. I think people love to spread their wings and be challenged and learn more. And when they are, they feel grateful.

Bob Tullio: That’s it for now. On the next episode of Automatic Merchandiser’s Vending & OCS Nation, Judson Kleinman’s journey, insights, perspective and advice. It’s more than just a one-part episode.